As a follow-up to my “Guitar Center bought by Mitt Romney’s Company: No More Haggling Allowed“ I recently received a good comment from a Guitar Center employee. It provoked me to delve further into the whole Guitar Center issue. I was going to email this person, but I felt the comments were valuable, and merited posting in the main blog, including my wordy responses.
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…yes….the prospect of the commission thing going away is quite probable. However, employees are and still will be REQUIRED to pass certifications on their knowledge. Also, despite not being a commission based job, you are still required to hit your goal (sales figures based on your skill/lenth of job/job title….all business’s have a daily goal people…not a huge industry secret). So, if you think that average ‘Joe Blow’ can just waltz in and get a job, think again.—–
How long will that last? I wanted to get a job at Guitar Center because I was pretty sure that I knew more about guitar stuff than most of the people on the floor, and therefore I felt I would do a good job informing people and selling guitars, earning a good commission by developing a dialogue with them. Incentive being that I could take the price down and get them coming back. Without commission, it wouldn’t matter at all if the person knew anything about guitars, a wage job is a wage job.
It’s like most big name stores without commission; salespeople don’t go around asking people if they want anything, they just sit at the register waiting to check someone out. There’s no incentive or reason for them to ask, so they just sit around waiting. Deals and commission were all about incentive. Incentive to work at Guitar Center, incentive to sell, incentive to buy, incentive to get a deal.
Now Guitar Center can’t have the whole friendly vibe, or at least there’s no point to it. I went in to the store that day looking for the guy I knew, and he knew me. He would give me good deals on things and I wouldn’t waste his time with other people, i’d ask for what I wanted and pay. Instead, if I go I can just buy whatever from whoever and know i’m paying full price, and the salespeople no longer matter. People with knowledge won’t matter, they’ll just show it on the computer if someone asks for information.
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People can whine all they want about having to finally pay what the instrument is worth. If you want to go to a mom and pop shop, that is your business and your right. GC is simply trying to get away from that archaic way of doing business. Car dealerships have been doing away with it as well. There are many flaws in the “haggle” way of selling. Look at it from a different perspective…..Let’s say you own a business, and you have to pay rent, utilities, insurance (public, employment, property), overhead (cost of goods and the cost to maintain those goods) and so forth…..and then you get Johnny McDouchebag coming into your store…. occupies 3 hours of your time, and then when it gets down to the sale, he grinds the hell out of you until you are 5-10% above cost. That 5-10% will not cover your overall costs of selling that piece. You actually lose money. Do you honestly think that is fair? Is it fair to the business? Without income, the business cannot grow. Is it fair to the employee who is trying to earn a living? If someone feels the need to grind me on a price, I feel like that person doesn’t care about my time, my livelihood or my knowledge and it’s disrespectful.—–
That was the thing, it was the only reason I went to Guitar Center. By creating a haggling atmosphere, it was an entirely different entity and it was the reason I didn’t go to mom and pops. If I have the option now of paying full price at Guitar Center or at a small store, i’m going to the small store. I feel my money is going to better use, i’ve had a better experience, and i’m making sure they’ll be there by supporting their livelihood. Before this new price set thing was in action, I would care if Guitar Center left. Now not so much. Unlike technology stores and emporium stores, there’s still a grassroots guitar store movement out there, and if Guitar Center is just another one of the options, i’ll let them go.
I was willing to buy more things overall because I knew I would get good prices on things I wanted, and by talking to people for hours who gave me a deal, i’d always come back and give them my business. Unlike a Car Dealership, you don’t just go to Guitar Center once. Most people have more than one guitar, amp, pedal, and accessories. If I know your name, and I know you treat me well and give me good prices, i’ll just keep talking to you and probably buy things I don’t need, but get them just because it’s a good price. Same reason I went in there in the first place. Obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone. Tourists, beginners, rich people with money to burn.
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Obviously, I work at GC. I spend an enormous amount of my time learning all I can to insure that the information I give to someone is correct. I’m not very high up in the ranks (just an AM), but I do believe in the direction the company is taking. It will take some time to get all the bugs worked out, but believe me…I know what’s up the road and it looks good. Try not to be so negative people. GC is trying to make a change for the better. Yeah, sure, you may have to pay the tagged price now….so what? Do you haggle your groceries? Best Buy? Anywhere else? This is a business, and it has to be run as such. Why else do you think the company was in trouble before Bain bought it? We were giving away too much stuff below the price to cover our overall costs. I’ve seen the IBITA (your overall costs vs. profits…..that is if I spelled it right) reports, and it was UGLY. Cost was not outweighing our income. Hopefully, a few open minds out there will see where I was coming from with this and perhaps see reasoning. -Z-—–
Guitars are a store driven market, and Guitar Center was the only big chain out there. I feel no loyalty to a Best Buy or a grocery store because those are things I need. More people need and buy cell phones, cameras, TVs, computers, and food than they ever buy guitars. It’s why Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, SHARP, and so forth are household names and brands, while i’d give a guess and say that if you asked someone to name a guitar company, you’d be lucky with a “Fender”, “Martin” or “Gibson.”
They don’t offer haggling because they don’t have to. Guitar Center is purely luxury items for a specific market, and in order to captivate an outside, seemingly uninterested market, there needs to be some (back to square one) incentive that will cross the mental barrier of them wanting to spend money. Guitar Center is all over America, but the consistency was that we could get good deals at all of the stores if there were good people there. And the salespeople were unique instead of just a clan of blue-wearing khaki pants robots. As I said, people wanted to work there, and Guitar Center knew it. It has/had an extremely high employee turnover rate because GC knew if someone wasn’t performing, they could get another worker in quick.
So here’s an open question to employees and readers alike:
What sets Guitar Center above anyone else now?
Give your comments and thoughts.
15 Comments
June 18, 2008 at 9:12 am
What sets Guitar Center above anyone else now?
A physical retail store you can visit anytime you like (don’t have to wait for mail delivery) and that has typically the most quantity and diversity of guitar-related products in your city.
I think at the end of the day, if you want to do business in the music instruments area, you have to decide whether you want to reach a savvy buyer niche in that area, or the most customers in that area. And, whatever route you choose, you have to be the best at it given your company assets.
Guitar Center, in my opinion, has chosen to be the leading retail musical instruments “store” and it is probably the only one capable of doing it successfuly. The fact that other retailers have been leaving the market signifies that Guitar Center has an opportunity to be the leader because it will be the only one left.
I think while playing music is sort of a luxury item in a household’s list of things, buying an instrument, especially a guitar, is not a luxurious cateogory anymore. I mean, a lot of people buy guitars, and these are people who are not gear experts. And, you can get a decent guitar at a low price. And, also, be mindful of the Guitar Hero phenomenon, which is not going away and it is driving more and more people to the guitar store.
So, somebody has to cater to the average person who plays guitar who is not an expert connosieour of gear and can haggle. Somebody has to meet this market’s need, and out of the competition Guitar Center is poised to win there, IMO. And, hopefully, in my view, they’ll do other things to bring value to this market beyond just selling instruments.
Just my two cents. Great conversation.
IG
June 26, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I understand that going to a mom and pop appears to go to a better use, however don’t judge so fast. Yeah, mom and pop shops are awesome, I’ll be the first to admit. However, underneath the umbrella of GC corporate, there are alot of people employed by GC. If a mom and pop shop goes out of business, a couple of people would have to find a new job or business…..sad, but not a tragedy. However, if GC went out of business, many thousands would be out of a job. Which do you think would impact the public market/economy the worst?
I also understand the loyalty issue. I have no loyalty to my grocery store or electronics store. Despite GC changing their ways, if you deal with the same guy/girl and they know your gear, what you are trying to achieve, what your band is up to and so on, that relationship is invaluable…period. Where else will there be a guy keeping his eyes open for a vintage 67′ Les Paul for you and give you a call if one shows up used? I have a bunch of customers I consider friends. I have a long list of gear that I am always looking for to come in. I can’t count how many people I have made happy finding them some obscure piece of gear, by either it showing up, or me simply searching the chain inventory. And I can say this in complete honesty…the sale of the item is maybe 10% of my motivation. I genuinely get a thrill by finding someone the gear they have been dreaming of. Maybe it’s my love of music…I dunno. Most of the guys/girls I work with feel pretty much the same way. I’ve done work with Make-A-Wish at my store, and it’s the greatest experience taking part in granting a ‘wish’ for some kid. My last wish granted was a Custom Tri-tone Gibson Les Paul. The entire guitar department all chipped in stuff in a xmas stocking (the wish was being granted near xmas). CD’s, swag, clothing, etc….. I have a bunch of pictures of the event. The greatest feeling was seeing Zach (the kid) playing his new guitar in a Vintage Modern halfstack to some Led Zepplin Tune and his mom hugging me with tears in her eyes thanking me for all my help.
I didn’t get paid to do that, I did it because I love music, and how often does someone get to grant a wish?
With all that said and done, how often do you hear of ‘other’ music retailers or mom and pops doing things like that?
What about the GC ‘Sessions’? If you are not familiar, check out our website and read up on it. It’s really cool.
I’m not really sure what else to say about this issue. I merely wanted to chime in and say what I think and see from the inside. I’ve never been a ‘flag waver’ for my place of work. But I will defend it if it’s unfairly attacked.
And to say that GC will no longer give deals is false. You can always get a deal….always. Exceptions being the obvious such as Mesa Boogie, Bose and Monster. If nothing else, they are going to be implementing better authentic sale prices (no longer just the same price with a different colored tag), email 10-15% off coupons (like they did this month), and ongoing crazy sales. For example, Friday and saturday (june 27th and 28th) we are having the ‘midnight madness’ sale. I saw the gear list today, and it’s a legitimate massive discount on a ton of gear. I’m talking Ampeg heads normally $699 for around $349. That kind of shit. Seriously. If you see this post before then, go check it out for yourselves.
Ok, I’m done for now. All comments and questions are welcome.
-z-
July 8, 2008 at 12:06 am
All I know is that I recently interviewed at GC (I have an interview coming up shortly). I know people who work there and I know all about commission and such. Anyway, my real point is this: in the interview, I was to take a diagnostic test as to see how much I know about musical equipment. There were several questions that were rather varied. Each question had four choices and had to be answered in under 2 minutes (no looking anything up). I would disagree that any Joe Blow can work there.
July 15, 2008 at 10:04 pm
The real hallmark of a great salesperson is the “I genuinely care” attitude. That translates into truth, honesty, humility and the willingness to go the distance for the customer. Can you name ANY retailer that nails it with 100% of it’s sales force?
GC managers are all required to create this mental attitude in their crew. It ain’t easy but it does happen on a regular basis with people who are receptive. It’ll never be perfect but you can rest assured that GC will never stop aspiring to be the best in all categories.
July 19, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Haggling made sense back when music stores tagged instruments at the suggested retail, instead of glp (guaranteed lowest price). At that time haggling was expected by the salesperson and the customer, and was needed to get a decent price. But Guitar Center has created a competitive market that allows everyday customers to get a good deal, even if they’re paying the tagged price. Haggling isn’t as necessary as it once was to get a deal.
Where else can you go and tell the salesperson/clerk that you don’t want to pay the listed price? Can a carpenter get a discount at the hardware store because he’s a “professional”? Do most people get a discount when spending money on their hobbies, whatever that should be? Why should Guitar Center be any different?
One more thing, as an employee it is very difficult to make a decent living at GC, which makes it all the more frustrating when customers expect deals. Which (sort of) brings me to my next point: I’ll be happy when we’re off commission, and I don’t think it will ruin customer service at GC. First off, like the previous poster said, we’ll still be expected to hit sales goals. If Joe Schmoe can’t sell, he’s gone. Second, I think employees will be more satisfied with what they make, which will lead to happier employees, more eager to do their jobs. Also, this should help the horrendous employee turnover rate, which means a more experienced staff.
July 31, 2008 at 12:44 am
Uh….I don’t think that Mitt Romney runs that company anymore…But way to sensationalize.
August 2, 2008 at 6:08 am
Haggling can be all part of the experience.
So if you want to try to get a better price now you will end up going where that experiende is available. I used to love to go to pawn shops and make deals. Now a days I don;t have the time or energy. That said.. at my local guitar store they know me and I have been a customoer for over 20 years and the old timers know me and offer me a good deal.
Long term relationships are the way to build a business. I try to treat each customer or “tire kicker” so as to increase trust in me with the goal of becoming a trusted friend. In the end you have lots of friends and customers and it makes it easier to get up in the morning to go to work.
Andrew Koblick
http://www.guitar5day.com
August 18, 2008 at 10:48 pm
guitar center does pricematching.
in my opinion, that’s the best form of haggling.
if you could possibly find a published price for lower than what gc offers, they’ll respect that and offer you an equal or lower price.
it’s pretty rad.
plus, you get one on one service and the benefit of knowing that some one sold you your product, not some online protocol, which absolutely parallels the post-buy customer service a purchaser receives.
August 22, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I just have to say something here…is it really considered crazy that a company will not AUTOMATICALLY discount merchandise just because someone says so? No other corporate retailer would even consider such a thing on the scale that Guitar Center has. I understand that people get a thrill, of sorts, from “haggling”; hey, you know what? So do I.
That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the BEST way of doing business. I, in the past, and even currently on occasion, have almost had to discount a piece solely to satisfy a customer, not because there was any real reason to warrant that discount. Except, of course, because some people just want to know that they got a deal. I suppose my subconscious reasoning for doing so is that the customer being pleased and happy and overall satisfied is more important than staying with a price.
However, from time to time, it can be insulting when you’re talking to someone who suggests or at least implies that both you and your “guaranteed lowest price” are illegitimate and heinously bullshit. I have to say, when you run into this scenario, it can be discouraging, and to a greater degree, a succubus of good will turned, simply, “tolerant” of the situation.
People have to understand that Guitar Center is just not like any other retailer. It is not a job that just anybody can do. There seems to be a common misconception that the people who work at Guitar Center are just lobotomized dolts who smoke pot, have no real ambition whatsoever, and think as well as articulate monosyllabically and without logic or good sense. I know this, because I have actually been told this, in so many words.
Again, contrary to popular belief, there is A LOT that goes into working at Guitar Center, from the guy/girl who stands at the door counting how many people walk in and stamp their receipts to the people who manage a store, to the people who manage the store managers to the CEO himself. I mean it…a lot of time and energy and concentration, and sometimes loss of sleep goes into making it all happen at Guitar Center.
Every person that works there has to have more than a basic knowledge of the product they’re selling, as well as the attributes of that product. On top of having to know the ins and outs of each manufacturer, product line, features, and so on, we as Guitar Center employees have to keep up on the ever-changing technology that is associated with this product, as well as which major manufacturer bought out which competitor, or whether there is a shortage of this type of wood and how that shortage will effect the production of this type of drum or guitar, or whether a manufacturer outsources and why they decided to do so.
Then we have to know how that is going to interact with other products, and, more importantly, how that product or products will ultimately effect your music, whether you are a performing musician or a kid who only plays his guitar or drum set when his parents are at Target so he doesn’t have to hear them bitch about the noise he’s making. It takes more than an automaton to understand each person and their unique musical situation.
And, just to clear the air here, no matter what the public opinion may be, good or bad, most guitar center employees that I know got into it for two reasons. One, they love music, and the respective instrument they make that music on. Two, they very genuinely want to help people find their path to their own musical creation; they want to help people understand what it is that makes all the music we love, why and how it works, what it’s value is, and how it can better serve their musical aspirations. Anyone who doesn’t believe that should actually talk to some of the Guitar Center employees, not just immediately assume that because it’s a corporation, we are just Stormtroopers out to assist the intake of money, rather than serve the interests of people who love music. How’s that for run-on sentences?
I love my job. I am an Assistant Manager. I try really hard. I try to help the people I work with. I try to understand them, and I try to encourage them. Why? Because, I want them to be able to do the same for their customers, and I want to understand, assist, and encourage my customers with whatever it is they need.
I can honestly say that I have fixed a kid’s guitar that was totally unplayable. He brought it in and had no idea how to get it working again. I spent an hour re-vamping this ugly thing, and when I was done, it was a perfectly intonated, well polished and conditioned, great sounding guitar. I charged him absolutely nothing. And you know what? He tipped me 10 dollars. I even argued with him that the tip wasn’t necessary. Either way, the kid left very happy, with a big smile on his face. And I’m sure he enjoyed his guitar. And that made my day. Hell, it made my month.
That’s what Guitar Center’s about. We don’t build the stuff we sell, we don’t work at Yamaha or Gibson, we don’t know why this piece takes as long as it does to ship to this person. What we do know is that we actually give a shit about our customers. I remember my customers names. I know what band they’re in, if they’re in one. I know if they prefer a certain type of drum head or string guage for a guitar. Can Best Buy or Wal-Mart honestly say that they’re doing that? Can they remember the name, life situation, product preference of their customer as though they were bartenders?
No. Even if they could, it would not come close to the scale that guitar center does. We love our customers. We try hard for our company, our managers, our bosses, our CEO’s, whoever, but not like we do for our customers. They’re the ones’ we see on a daily basis.
So, keep that in mind. Not every one is evil and trying to get your money. Some, if not most of us, want to see you have success in your aspirations, and be happy with those aspirations, and the gear, the advice, and the customer service that may have played a part in getting you there.
Thanks Guys.
November 5, 2008 at 1:55 pm
I was an assistant manager at a Guitar Center in TN, and I helped open the store. I worked there for 3 years and I can tell you these facts:
- Guitar Center trains its employees *explicitly* to rip you off.
Its not about what gear fits your needs, it’s about what gear “gips” (GP) or makes the most gross profit. That’s all they tell you. “Just roll deals, sell sell sell…” They even have things called “Gip Bombs” that are garbage instruments marked up 50% and then encourage you to sell that garbage.
As a working musician since about 16 (im 28 now), I can tell you honestly… that place is hell.
December 16, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Very interesting article. I did not know about any of this. I can’t speak on behalf of Guitar Center so much, but I seriously think that Samash needs to teach its employees about proper sales. At least at the Samash near me.
I don’t know how you can make a sale of information or product when you can’t even look the customer in the eye. I see this behavior everywhere, and its getting worse and worse. Only those who are willing to work on their people skills will ever progress in business. If I were Samash, I would hand every employee in the company a copy of “How to win friends and influence people” by Dale Carnegie – a very important read for anyone.
January 5, 2009 at 8:56 am
What really sets GC above anyone else is the fact that you can get what you actually want to buy. If you go to a mom and pop store wanting to buy an amp, sure they will have an amp. They may even have two.
The prices are good. The selection is the best for any brick and mortar store. The people really WANT to enjoy helping you. I work for GC. Trust me. Nobody at the store level is getting rich. We just want to enjoy our jobs. Any time you feel you don’t trust a GC employee, keep that in mind. If we are so good at sales and taking your money, what the hell are we doing in THIS avenue of sales when we could be making real money in a different company with a different product? We just want to enjoy what we do, and most of us enjoy working with gear and can help you get what you need.
If you want to pay less, often you can. Just do your research. Any advertised price will be beaten. Just look it up. If nobody has a lower price then you’re already getting a deal, aren’t you? Get over the haggling. It’s lame.
Please, folks, keep in mind that in the GC stores we don’t just sell. It is a lot of work setting things up for you to play with.
So, we work hard. We have good prices. We have a good selection. We are not money grubbing bastards. (I cannot stress this enough. We make shit, and I work in one of the BIG music markets at a BIG Guitar Center.) We try to enjoy what we do. We like the gear and we want you to enjoy buying it and using it. If there is a mom and pop store in your town that can perform on all of those levels any better, you live in some kind of gear heaven.
February 5, 2009 at 8:34 am
Wow, after working at GC for 6 months in NYC, it really amazes me how many AMs etc on this post seem really INTO that store. They are repeating practically verbatim the company handbook as was recited to us by the AM’s and managers. I can’t say GC was a great place, and wouldn’t shop there now, commission/haggling or no because it’s all a bunch of bs rhetoric, plain and simple.
The managers are there to compete and make money- and it’s all too often at the expense of their sales people.
GC has a way of advertising that is common with any department store or supermarket you want to name. It doesn’t run to promote a creative spirit, but focuses all its energy on THE GEAR. Oh how hot is this GEAR, oh sweet GEAR I need MORE GEAR…etc. Consumption of PRODUCT is promoted, not the integrity or quality of the music itself. (How seamlessly they were able to start selling Guitar Hero alongside the real instruments without batting an eye!)
Yes, obviously GC is a retail store, but that’s my point- it defines itself by the products alone- its reason for being is the product and not the end result- which honestly should be to help people express themselves creatively.
You get this kind of environment from employees who want to be there, and enjoy what they do. GC had very few of these people on the sales floor. It felt like everyone was hustling for a pimp, and fighting over peanuts. It creates a deluded state among employees who start believing that it’s a valuable way to spend their time- that the commission-wages really pay off. They don’t, and that creates a lingering state of resentment among the quicker members of the sales crew.
What ended up happening was it made people resort to creative ways of making money off the store. Two or three people got canned while I was there for agreeing to take the price down significantly for the customer on a keyboard or Mac or something expensive in exchange for a little cash from the customer right then and there into the employee’s pocket.
And yes, anyone can work there- it has to be that easy because for that much work and that little pay, few people even stayed as long as I did.
So essentially, commission or no, there really was no great incentive for the employees at GC anyway. What do you expect from the combination of a low payoff for an inversely proportional amount of grunt-work. Sorry, had to get some stuff off my chest
February 28, 2009 at 10:26 pm
I guess what it comes down to is whether Guitar Center cares more about having more gross sales who will be repeat customers, and once those people are won over, they will come back for everything small they need like strings etc. in bulk quantities. Or do they care more about making full profit off of a single item, and not making the customer feel like he is getting something different at this place. As mentioned above, if GC is going to just sell things for retail cost, yet a Ma-Pop shop is willing to haggle a little to beat GC, eventually I think we will see things level out a bit. Circuit City was in business and a large chain for a long time. It is things like what seemed like minor policies which have led this company to its demise. The road ahead might seem like it is paved well, and while I agree that there might be some stability for a while, GC will eventually reach its peak, and the word will get out about the GP bombs, which as a previous employee I can vouch for. I dont at all trust employees there now, only because most of them when I go there are trying to sell me b-52 amps telling me they sound like a mesa, simply because they have more profit. I guess this would be remedied by taking commission away, however I think haggling is going to make its way back, as I am currently developing a website specifically devoted to consumer haggling which will partner with various retailers to allow the retailers to reach “haggling” type customers, as well as make customers get the “break” they want. I used to love Guitar Center, and now I will only buy strings and drum heads there because everything else can be bought cheaper at smaller stores and they “earn” your business.
April 10, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Interesting story – great comments.
I used to work at GC for four years. My experience – loved it and hated it. The reasons I loved it – working in the music instrument industry, selling gear to musicians – and that positive vibe is still there. What I hated was that the culture to sell really caused anxiety amongst the employees – and that is going away with the change in sales tactics – making it a much better place.
In regards to GC hiring “Joe Blows” – I have to disagree with that. I thought I knew allot about gear – been playing for 20 years – but was always amazed at how much the other salespeople I worked with knew.
Don’t expect salespeople to know every detail about every piece of gear – that’s not reality. The hardest thing was when some guy would come in to the store after spending countless hours researching one particular guitar – then proceed to grill you on every detail of that instrument – often with no intention of ever buying – doing it just to get his kicks. And this is what GC employees have to deal with on a daily basis. I luckily realized this early on and when it happened to me I would tell the customer the truth – you know more than I do, so tell me what you know – stroking his ego while possibly learning something from him.
I had a great time working there, and have an even greater time shopping there knowing I can just go in, try out some gear and not buy anything.
One last thing – it’s too bad musicians don’t respect each other more – instead of dissing GC employees, why not realize that they are musicians like you that just want to earn a living.